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Old Dec 18 2008, 06:15 PM   #41
rigan
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I actually dont think that the battle system will be so much alike of the FFXII, i didnt have anything against the FFXII battle system (it was more the political storyline) but considering what we've seen from the trailers this new system looks to be a litle bit more complex, even if they have some sort of gambit system i still think that they will tweak it so that you are a litle bit forced to input more comands.... anyhow for all of you that is looking for an old fashioned RPG i dont think this is going to be the game for you...
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Old Dec 18 2008, 06:18 PM   #42
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I actually dont think that the battle system will be so much alike of the FFXII, i didnt have anything against the FFXII battle system (it was more the political storyline) but considering what we've seen from the trailers this new system looks to be a litle bit more complex, even if they have some sort of gambit system i still think that they will tweak it so that you are a litle bit forced to input more comands.... anyhow for all of you that is looking for an old fashioned RPG i dont think this is going to be the game for you...
Square Enix wanted a battle system that was as fast as an action game while allowing the player to input commands. That's apparently what we'll be getting in FFXIII.
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Old Dec 19 2008, 07:45 PM   #43
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SE never disapointed me with battle systems in FF games and I dont think its going to happen now.
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Old Dec 21 2008, 04:06 PM   #44
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" FFXIII director Motomu Toriyama describs the battle mechanics as an "active dynamic system" that takes place without leaving the main map."

Oh thank GOD, I am SO happy about that. I know a lot of people don't understand it but that is extremely important to me. Fighting on the main map is so much more dynamic and realistic, it doesnt' get repetitive (when you're constantly taken to the same field), running away is more fun, there's more you can do with the system... I could go on. That's the best news I've heard about FFXIII for a LONG time.
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Old Dec 21 2008, 09:02 PM   #45
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Fighting on the main map is so much more dynamic and realistic, it doesnt' get repetitive (when you're constantly taken to the same field), running away is more fun, there's more you can do with the system... I could go on. That's the best news I've heard about FFXIII for a LONG time.
Glad you're feelin' the info bro. TBH though, I just want this game to be an evolution of XII but get the shit done right so everyone enjoys the new semi real-time approach the main FF series has been going into since XI.
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Old Dec 21 2008, 09:14 PM   #46
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The best way I can think of how the new system will look and feel is...like a quicktime event system. Look at Resident Evil 4 and Force Unleashed, how at the ends of fights you had to enter in buttons in a certain order and it played out like a cinematic. I think this will be the same way but instead of button mashing combos you'll be entering in standard commands, like Attack, Magic, etc. I think in the middle of the cinematic-esque fighting you'll get to a part where it looks almost like an old school RPG system, baddies in front of you, heroes waiting for commands. Enter the commands and the cinematic starts back up.

But I could be 100% wrong.
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Old Dec 21 2008, 10:21 PM   #47
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The best way I can think of how the new system will look and feel is...like a quicktime event system. Look at Resident Evil 4 and Force Unleashed, how at the ends of fights you had to enter in buttons in a certain order and it played out like a cinematic. I think this will be the same way but instead of button mashing combos you'll be entering in standard commands, like Attack, Magic, etc. I think in the middle of the cinematic-esque fighting you'll get to a part where it looks almost like an old school RPG system, baddies in front of you, heroes waiting for commands. Enter the commands and the cinematic starts back up.

But I could be 100% wrong.
Actually, I think a better way to describe it would be like a modified version of the sleights from Kingdom Hearts Re: Chain of Memories, except more cinematic, command rather than card based, and with an ATB limit rather than a three-card limit.

In both cases, you "stock up" commands, then execute them in a neat string with triangle. From what I've heard (from GameTrailers), the string of attacks in FFXIII can turn into a different combination attack if the right attacks are paired together, which is also reminiscent of the sleights.

The commands are probably entered either during the execution of the string of attacks or during the enemies' string of attacks, depending on whether the enemies' attacks take place in the middle of the player's string or not, so there wouldn't be much of the characters sitting around and waiting between turns.
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Old Dec 21 2008, 10:48 PM   #48
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Actually, I think a better way to describe it would be like a modified version of the sleights from Kingdom Hearts Re: Chain of Memories, except more cinematic, command rather than card based, and with an ATB limit rather than a three-card limit.

In both cases, you "stock up" commands, then execute them in a neat string with triangle. From what I've heard (from GameTrailers), the string of attacks in FFXIII can turn into a different combination attack if the right attacks are paired together, which is also reminiscent of the sleights.

The commands are probably entered either during the execution of the string of attacks or during the enemies' string of attacks, depending on whether the enemies' attacks take place in the middle of the player's string or not, so there wouldn't be much of the characters sitting around and waiting between turns.
You're right, that's definitely a better way to describe it. Either way, it's something new, so it'll be interesting regardless.
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Old Dec 22 2008, 10:34 PM   #49
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From what I hear, it's only going to be like XII in the fact that the player sees and battles enemies on the normal screen, but combat is going to be much faster paced, you'll be pulling off multiple moves with one character, and you control the entire party, sounds like FFX-2 + FFXII to me.
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Old Dec 23 2008, 10:04 PM   #50
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From what I hear, it's only going to be like XII in the fact that the player sees and battles enemies on the normal screen, but combat is going to be much faster paced, you'll be pulling off multiple moves with one character, and you control the entire party, sounds like FFX-2 + FFXII to me.
actually now when i think about it, i think that by adding some of the ideas they had in FFX-2 battlesystem it will do great because the battle system was faster than before and more action oriented.. but the whole issue with all the battle systems in RPG's is that you often have all of your characters standing in the same place slashin the same enemy or another enemy, in FFXII you could move your character but it didnt really matter if you where behind the enemy or infront of him, he would still just turn around and kick your ass.. what i really enjoyed was the battle system in Crisis Core (but that battlesystem only fits a one character game ) cause there you did more damage by hitting the enemy from behind wich i think made sence... SE have a BIIIIG task coming up with a battle system that will blow our mind because i'm having a hard time seing how the hell they can pull off so many things they promise... FFXII battle system was totaly new and very diffrent from before and made some of my last days playing it runing around trying to get to the next story-event.... but i still enjoyed it with over 80 hour playtime
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Old Dec 28 2008, 07:40 AM   #51
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Read this yesterday and it's a shame we already knew all this. In fact we knew it was going to be an FFXII esque battle system since 2006. I disliked FFXII and I'm certainly not getting the fuck out. Maybe you need to realise that it wasn't the battle system that pissed most people off. Also remember it isn't going to be exactly the same.

I think this post makes you look like a twat and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks so. I'm surprised you managed to top your whole "I'm a girl" bullshit.


I Agree With This Guy Lol
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Old Dec 28 2008, 09:53 PM   #52
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I think this thread would have been more acceptable if it had FFXIII in the title somewhere.
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Old Dec 29 2008, 01:25 AM   #53
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I said it before and I'll say again, I hope the combats like too human, only with both online & offline
co-op mixed together
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Old Jan 01 2009, 08:21 AM   #54

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No way should the combats be like FFXII. That system put me to sleep. The combat system should be lightning fast ATB (like FFX-2) with commands that can be stacked together in a que and chained into epic combos.

The less MMO influence, the better. Thats why I'm dissapointed with WKC is because of too much MMO influence.
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Old Jan 01 2009, 10:17 AM   #55
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Is there anything technically wrong with "MMO influence" or is it just not people's style? What made FFXII MMO influenced? The huge fields? That doesn't really make sense... the bars running after you've selected your attacks? That barely makes a difference... Gambits? No, that doesn't work at all.

So what exactly is it?

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I said it before and I'll say again, I hope the combats like too human, only with both online & offline
co-op mixed together


Too Human had the worst combat system I've played this decade. Possibly ever. It was disgusting. Everybody has their opinions I guess...
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Old Jan 01 2009, 04:37 PM   #56
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Is there anything technically wrong with "MMO influence" or is it just not people's style? What made FFXII MMO influenced? The huge fields? That doesn't really make sense... the bars running after you've selected your attacks? That barely makes a difference... Gambits? No, that doesn't work at all.

So what exactly is it?
Well, part of it is the way that the monsters act - huge mobs, rather than a few enemies at once.

The other part is the lousy treasure chests and ridiculously-low obtain percentages for weapons. =P
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Old Jan 01 2009, 07:05 PM   #57
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Well, part of it is the way that the monsters act - huge mobs, rather than a few enemies at once.

The other part is the lousy treasure chests and ridiculously-low obtain percentages for weapons. =P
The amount of enemies you fight at a time in FFXII is probably lower than the FF average, unless you actually try to join them together. It's usually one with a maximum of three. Very rarely are there a group of smaller monsters that might be in a loose pack of five.

The treasure chests were pretty different from normal, but not hugely. And the percentage for weapons wasn't ridiculously low. =P

I think I've got what makes people think its MMO influenced. It's all the small, irrelevant things put together. So it's an incredibly stupid complaint, but I can see where it comes from.
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Old Jan 01 2009, 09:58 PM   #58
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The amount of enemies you fight at a time in FFXII is probably lower than the FF average, unless you actually try to join them together. It's usually one with a maximum of three. Very rarely are there a group of smaller monsters that might be in a loose pack of five.

The treasure chests were pretty different from normal, but not hugely. And the percentage for weapons wasn't ridiculously low. =P

I think I've got what makes people think its MMO influenced. It's all the small, irrelevant things put together. So it's an incredibly stupid complaint, but I can see where it comes from.
I'll give you that most of the time, you didn't get mobbed. But, there were still some times when it happened (especially when fighting soldiers). Plus, the enemies were MMO-ish in that there were some random strong enemies who you just had to avoid like the plague or else they'd kill you (rather than random strong enemies who were strong, but beatable).

The treasure chest problem was anything but irrelevant, though. The difference between FFIII and IV in their DS incarnations and XII was huge - in the earlier games, the things found in treasure chests were generally very useful, weapons were always where they should be, and looking everywhere was something that would pay off. I wound up avoiding treasure chests in XII most of the time, because they just weren't worth it, usually.

...which leads to the real reason it feels like an MMO - the reward structure. MMOs are geared to give very small rewards, with the possibility of a nice payoff if you take on the right quest. Final Fantasy is supposed to be geared towards consistently-significant rewards. Going out of your way rewards you with a more powerful weapon, or a limited item like an Ether; fighting monsters leads to an instant (and generally significant over the course of a dungeon) monetary reward; beating bosses leads to significant advances in the story. The only thing you don't get much of a reward while doing is travel, and the world map, combined with airships, kept that from taking much time at all - and not only that, but the towns you reach at the end of it have both shops and story.

FFXII reduced the rewards (and the probability of getting any reward) for everything, including rewards through plot revelations, increased travel time, and increased waiting time through the addition of gambits. That's what people call "feeling like an MMO."
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Old Jan 02 2009, 01:37 AM   #59
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I'll give you that most of the time, you didn't get mobbed. But, there were still some times when it happened (especially when fighting soldiers). Plus, the enemies were MMO-ish in that there were some random strong enemies who you just had to avoid like the plague or else they'd kill you (rather than random strong enemies who were strong, but beatable).

The treasure chest problem was anything but irrelevant, though. The difference between FFIII and IV in their DS incarnations and XII was huge - in the earlier games, the things found in treasure chests were generally very useful, weapons were always where they should be, and looking everywhere was something that would pay off. I wound up avoiding treasure chests in XII most of the time, because they just weren't worth it, usually.

...which leads to the real reason it feels like an MMO - the reward structure. MMOs are geared to give very small rewards, with the possibility of a nice payoff if you take on the right quest. Final Fantasy is supposed to be geared towards consistently-significant rewards. Going out of your way rewards you with a more powerful weapon, or a limited item like an Ether; fighting monsters leads to an instant (and generally significant over the course of a dungeon) monetary reward; beating bosses leads to significant advances in the story. The only thing you don't get much of a reward while doing is travel, and the world map, combined with airships, kept that from taking much time at all - and not only that, but the towns you reach at the end of it have both shops and story.

FFXII reduced the rewards (and the probability of getting any reward) for everything, including rewards through plot revelations, increased travel time, and increased waiting time through the addition of gambits. That's what people call "feeling like an MMO."
I agree that the risk/reward for going out of your way in a dungeon was pretty ridiculous (because of the chests. Usually the further out of the way it was, the less you'd get). But is that really that significant for you?

I don't understand what you mean by "reducing the rewards" outside of dungeons though. Apart from chests, what did it do? The rewards for doing side quests, optional bosses and story missions were always the same and always significant. And what do you mean "increased waiting time through the addition of gambits"?

I think enemies calling for help was a very good addition to the game, and not really something you can call an MMO influence. Some enemies would run away and seek help or call for aid when they were hurt, which means you had to use different strategies to beat them. The addition of realistic enemy AI is hardly a bad thing. O_o

Adding harder monsters in random areas sounded like a good idea when I first heard it (for realism purposes), but it was very annoying. I agree they could take that out. But once again, it isn't really relevant to the "too MMO influenced" argument, as something like that could just as easily turn up in a SP RPG.
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Old Jan 02 2009, 01:48 AM   #60
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Well I think battlesystem in FF XII was like.. Beta. It was okay, but they have to improve it lot.. Hope they got it right in FF XIII (this is only imo ofc)
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